High Evolutionary: Arley Sorg and Josh Pearce Discuss Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles: Mutant Mayhem
Since their inception in the ’80s the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles have seen many iterations, most of them unremarkable. This one is more than a basic rehash or cash grab; it is, perhaps, a geek love letter, wearing a spike belt and a chain necklace. The broad strokes are familiar (you know: turtles, radiation, mutation, and villains). But these strokes are rendered with interesting details that infuse what could have been a trite narrative with heart and a sense of newness. The Turtles, being teenagers, want to be loved, and sharply feel their sense of weirdness, of being outcasts. In solid teenager logic, they decide that becoming heroes will be the best way to win the love of the people of New York City. Opportunity arises in the form of a rash of high-tech robberies, with the mysterious Superfly (Ice Cube) behind it all. The Turtles set out to stop the Superfly, running into April O’Neil (Ayo Edebiri) along the way, who is on her own journey as a self-made journalist, and who has her own issues with acceptance.
Arley: I had avoided watching this, with a grudge. We’ve talked about how bored we are of sequels and remakes and how few movies there are with any amount of originality. But especially with the Turtles – most of the sequels and remakes and so on, they’re not worth the time or the money. I watched this on a plane because there was absolutely nothing else. And I was really surprised. I mean, I seriously enjoyed this movie. And Seth Rogan? When I think of him, I think of inane sexist bro movies, you know? Or, what I’ll call “average male fantasy flicks,” where “average dude” lands “hot chick.” So, I mean, I was really surprised, and I really enjoyed most things about this movie.
Josh: Yeah, it doesn’t surprise me that it’s Seth Rogen, because he’s a comics nerd.
Arley: What’s surprising about it isn’t that it was him. It surprised me that I liked it.
Josh: He does make a bunch of bro shit, but I think he always just wants to make comics and stuff like that. He did the remake of The Green Hornet as a passion project. He’s got the money now and the clout, where he can be like, “I like this thing. I’m gonna make my own version of it.” I think he respects the source material enough to not just shit all over it and crank it out for a buck, and it shows.
Arley: That moment when they reveal Superfly? And “Wake Up In The Sky” is playing? And his cronies come out of their cars, kind of bouncing to the music… that was kind of magical!
The animation was a complete standout, from opening sequences and establishing shots to action scenes to moments of depth and emotion and more. Visually stunning imagery, highlighted by creative and edgy interpretations of the source material, were among many factors that make this film shine. Music selections were paired beautifully with shots, giving the film even more dynamic energy. The acting was on point, going far towards making each Turtle more individualized than usual, with Ayo Edebiri perhaps even more fantastic than the rest as April O’Neil, and Jackie Chan being a fun surprise for folks who didn’t realize he’d be in this (or in what role).
Josh: I thought of the hallway fight in Guardians of the Galaxy Vol 3, where they play the Beastie Boys. This is doing what that Guardians scene was trying to do. You’re trying to match up your music with your action, and this one had perfect songs for sequences. Great animation choreography.
Arley: Sometimes I don’t see the point of a remake, if it just doesn’t feel original enough. With music, for example, when some artists cover a song and more or less sing it the way the original went, as opposed to others who cover a song and make it their own, fill it with their own vibe and presence, while still respecting the soul of the piece. I feel like this one respects the original while also being very original. I can compare it to the Spider-Verse animated movies, which is rehashing something we’ve seen so many iterations of, and yet it feels new, it feels fresh, it feels needed; and I feel the same thing about this. Well, almost – somewhat. I don’t know if this is “needed” in that same way, and it’s not on that Spider-Verse level, but still, lots innovation.
Josh: It’s not a deconstructed version, or a meta commentary on something. It fits in with what the Ninja Turtles universe has established.
Arley: The core narrative, the “Hero’s Journey” of the Turtles, it was a bit predictable. But I didn’t mind. And it made sense for an origin story movie. It’s kind of standard but well-executed.
Josh: The humor was really good too.
Arley: Agree!
Josh: I really liked the way the Turtles interacted with each other. There was a moment where they’re running across rooftops, and they felt like an actual team, which a lot of other superhero stories I see in movies these days don’t. The Turtles live together, they’re brothers, they have complementary skill sets, but it’s all from the same training so they actually gel together as an effective team. That chemistry works, you can see it onscreen, they treat each other as brothers – like giving each other shit all the time, but they all know each other really well and can gauge each other’s personalities and moods. It all felt real. It’s funny to say that about mutant turtles, but that speaks to the voice acting. It’s completely believable that these are just teenage brothers who are fucking around, but they also can do ninja shit, which is pretty cool.
Arley: The way that they overlapped when speaking is more true to how people speak, especially teenagers. Really perfect.
Josh: Compared to a lot of modern cinema, for example, the Mike Flanagan stuff, like Midnight Mass – in his shows, everyone is delivering their monologue. Each person waits for them to finish and then they deliver their monologue and it’s very staged. And then you compare it to the classic examples like Spielberg’s movies, because in E.T. they’re having breakfast and it’s the more realistic, naturalistic form of dialogue, where people are talking over each other. It’s not muddled, you can pick out a voice and follow the thread if you want to, but it sounds like a bunch of people having a meal together. That’s what this feels like. There are voices contradicting each other, and overlapping, and everyone’s got their own version of events.
Arley: This version of the April character was interesting. She had more depth and dimension. For the rat, because I knew this was a movie with a bunch of white dudes behind it, dudes who make bro movies
no less, at first I was like… Is this some really racist shit?!? A white dude doing a fake accent? I realized it wasn’t a Japanese accent at all, and from there recognized the voice….
Josh: You’re right, I didn’t realize who it was for a long time. I like how this movie gives everyone clear motivations and goals, like the Turtles want to be accepted, but within that, they all have specific ways they want to be accepted and how they want to get to it. But April’s talking about oh, “I wanted to break this story so people will accept me because my reputation is as puke girl.” That’s it? Is that the extent of your story? That doesn’t seem like much. I mean, it kind of pays off, but the scale was off compared to the series of events. You were embarrassed on camera and now everything’s ruined, but I guess it kind of fits with high school.
Arley: It’s easy to forget that we’re talking about high school.
Josh: That’s true. They are teenagers. But yeah, that was one moment where I paused, thinking, that’s all you’re gonna give her? I liked the other creatures. Rocksteady and Bebop were pretty funny.
Arley: I love how the Turtles are thinking, let’s just go kick this guy’s ass real quick. But they’re in for a big surprise!
Josh: Paul Rudd’s gecko character was funny, and I liked Scumbug because that was fucking gross. Such an awesome character.
From beginning to end, lots of writing decisions stack up for a cohesive and creative product. Character designs which feel right to the world but look new, including a truly amazing turn during the inevitable boss fight. An almost Spider-Man-esque turn with the status of the Turtles and New Yorkers. Thoughtful nuances to characters and their expressions. Resolutions which are more than just “swing a sword, punch a face.” Even aspects of the ending are surprising and land as more emotionally resonant than might be expected.
It wasn’t perfect, at least, not for us; and while we compared it to Spider-Verse, it’s not quite on par. Constant movie references across multiple characters grew stale the way nearly ubiquitous Beastie Boys songs in action movies become repetitive. Did Ice Cube lean into gangster stereotype too hard? Is it that bro-sexism that keeps the April character from getting fleshed out a little more? Is Splinter limited by the white interpretation of what “Asian” means? We had quibbles.
Josh: The villain’s evil plan of “turn everyone in New York into a mutant like me” is the same as Magneto’s in the first X-Men movie.
Arley: Yeah, I’ve seen this idea (or versions of it) a number of times, but it’s less common than the “rule the world” or “destroy the world” villain standards at least. I mean, going back to what we said about No One Will Save You. Part of it is probably expectations. The fact that I thought it would be really terrible. But it ended up being super entertaining. Lots of points for creativity and characterization and dialogue and music and all these things coming together.
Josh: I enjoyed it a lot. I was laughing a lot. I was drawn into the animation and the acting. Spider-Verse is pretty much the high point of cinema, but this was a good attempt at taking old, tired material, like you said, and doing something fresh with it. And succeeding.
Arley: If we talk about remakes, or re-envisionings or whatever, I think it’s better than the Godzilla movies. Maybe not Shin Godzilla, but the American ones.
Josh: Obviously, but the Godzilla ones are trying to take this treasured property and do something new with it, and then they just keep falling short. The same effects over and over, the same action choreography, the same set pieces, like, I’ve seen all this before. This film had cool things I hadn’t seen before. Ice Cube was great.
Arley: I think people who aren’t necessarily attached to Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles will enjoy this. It has a lot for a broader audience.
Josh: Even if you don’t know anything about Ninja Turtles, you get everything you need from this movie. It’s self-encapsulated, really.
Directed by: Jeff Rowe & Kyler Spears
Written by: Seth Rogen, Evan Goldberg, Jeff Rowe, Dan Hernandez, Benji Samit & Brendan O’Brien, based on characters created by Peter Laird & Kevin Eastman
Starring: Micah Abbey, Shamon Brown Jr., Nicolas Cantu, Brady Noon, Ayo Edebiri, Maya Rudolph, John Cena, Seth Rogen, Rose Byrne, Natasia Demetriou, Giancarlo Esposito, Jackie Chan, Ice Cube, Paul Rudd, Austin Post & Hannibal Buress
JOSH PEARCE has had more than 100 stories and poems published in top science fiction magazines, including Analog, Asimov’s, Beneath Ceaseless Skies, Bourbon Penn, Cast of Wonders, Clarkesworld, Diabolical Plots, Interzone, Nature, On Spec, Weird Horror, and elsewhere. Find more of his writing at fictionaljosh.com. One time, Ken Jennings signed his chest.
ARLEY SORG, Senior Editor, has been part of the Locus crew since 2014. Arley is an associate agent at kt literary. He is a 2022 Kate Wilhelm Solstice Award recipient and a 2023 Space Cowboy Award recipient. He is also a 2021 and 2022 World Fantasy Award finalist and a 2022 and 2023 Locus Award finalist for his work as co-Editor-in-Chief at Fantasy Magazine. Arley is a 2022 Ignyte Award finalist in two categories: for his work as a critic, and for his essay “What You Might Have Missed” in Uncanny Magazine. He is Associate Editor and reviewer at Lightspeed & Nightmare magazines, columnist for The Magazine of Fantasy and Science Fiction, and interviewer at Clarkesworld Magazine. He grew up in England, Hawaii, and Colorado, and lives in the SF Bay Area. A 2014 Odyssey Writing Workshop graduate, Arley has spoken at a range of events and taught for a number of programs, including guest critiquing for Odyssey and being the week five instructor for the six-week Clarion West workshop. He can be found at arleysorg.com – where he ran his own “casual interview” series with authors and editors – as well as Twitter (@arleysorg), Blue Sky, and Facebook.
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