Roundtable on ::ahem:: Non-Western SF

Brit Mandelo

The Western/non-Western binary problem is making it hard for me to comment. I’m writing Caribbean SF, Anglophone Commonwealth. How should my work be categorised?

Yes, I think I’d revise my previous formulation, thinking on what several folks like you and Lily have said: what I think we are talking about (or at least me, in this case) is not so much “Western,” but the specifically Anglo-American/British SF tradition, and its narrative dominance in the current English-speaking/reading marketplace?

Rachel Swirsky

I think it’s okay for things to exist in multiple categories at once.

My work is Western. I was born in California; I’ve lived in CA, NY, WV and IA. I only speak English.

I read anthropology because it’s awesome, but I’m still fundamentally, culturally Western; even if I write about other cultural spaces, my cultural identity will inevitably infuse it on some level.

People whose identities are complicated, or whose experiences are complicated, etc, will produce complicated work.

Western is a slippery, not well-defined term, but I’m not sure how to replace it, especially as identities and geographical politics are so complicated that they probably won’t ever be served well by a term that claims to clearly delineate them. Maybe coming from a culture that held colonial power, literally or by direct, contemporary cultural heritage.

Siobhan Carroll

The term “metropole” comes to mind, as in “international/(imperial) cultural center.” When we’re talking about publishing, it seems fair to acknowledge that a book printed by a large publishing house in New York has a larger potential global reach and a larger marketing budget than a book published in Lagos. The Lagos book may have a large impact locally, of course, but when it comes to international distribution I’d think the book published in a metropole has the advantage. (Maybe in a flat world this will prove different?)

Anyway, for me, the geographical idea of writing from the periphery has value. The further you are from the metropole, the less likely you are to have your storytelling shaped exclusively by its culture, the harder it is to tell your stories in the metropole, the more likely it is that you and your stories will be received as “exotic.”

Alan Beatts

The discussion of Western vs. non-Western narratives here has brought up a number of great points but it seems to me that it’s a pretty clear distinction, but it is cultural / social rather than geographic. SF in non-translated English is a product of and exists within a Western cultural context which incorporates a whole slew of underlying concepts, values, myths, and so on. Even if the author comes from a vastly different culture, merely by being capable of writing in English the author is aware and affected (infected?) by that cultural context through the mechanism of learning the language thoroughly enough to write in it.

Whether the author shares common “Western” attitudes about (just to pick a few biggies) — religion (should be subject to the state), sex (is associated with marriage), and politics (the rulers have obligations to the ruled) — is beside the point. The writing is done in with the awareness of those attitudes. And so the work is informed by them.

Which is the reason that work by authors outside that set of values and assumptions is valuable. They tell stories that a more “Western” writer wouldn’t imagine and which can both add richness to the field as well as giving readers new insights into their own cultures and pre-conceptions.

The problems with getting that sort of work to an English speaking audience are the two addressed already — translation is important and expensive to do well plus some of the stories will be unappealing to the audience. But it’s still worth trying.

Karen Lord

Even if the author comes from a vastly different culture, merely by being capable of writing in English the author is aware and affected (infected?) by that cultural context through the mechanism of learning the language thoroughly enough to write in it.

I’m not convinced of that.

Cecelia Holland

I am. There are things you can say in English you can’t say in Russian, and vice versa.

Karen Lord

If it comes to that, there are things you can say in Caribbean Standard English that you can’t say in US/UK Standard English.

Cecelia Holland

Exactly.

Siobhan Carroll

I think Alan just gave away the plot of Embassytown

Karen Lord

Haha! I was thinking the same thing.

18 thoughts on “Roundtable on ::ahem:: Non-Western SF

  • May 1, 2012 at 5:11 pm
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    I find this discussion disappointing. Can you not see what Fabio is trying to achieve here? What imbalances he is trying to redress? It’s a shame that when the question was about non-Western SF/F, the participants spent such an inordinate amount of time unpacking Western SF. The issue of post-colonialism is far too grave for a simple question to be picked apart in such a fussy, academic manner, and the real issues sidestepped.

    Reply
  • May 1, 2012 at 5:19 pm
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    Hi Regina,

    I don’t remember where my brain was during the roundtable, but these are the thoughts I just shared on twitter, for what they may be worth:

    Octavia Butler once said something to the effect of, “Of course science fiction is for black people. Black people have a future.”

    Of course science fiction is about non-Western people. Non-western people have a future.

    Americans (me included) can get tunnel vision, but reality is global.

    Reply
  • May 1, 2012 at 6:04 pm
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    SF is the literature of the imaginary. How can the imaginations of writers from outside the Western narrative contribute new perspectives to this literature?

    Great question, Fabio. As you know, I’m developing an anthology of first encounters from cultural perspectives beyond the western. How would people’s culture affect an alien encounter differently than Western cultures? I have done a lot of work, travel and study in various places from Africa to Europe to your own Brasil, and I have found rich cultures and peoples with diverse and fascinating customs and beliefs. I believe there are things they know, wisdom and insights, that the rest of us might benefit from. For example, the traditional cultural views of community in many African nations, for example, where everyone belongs to everyone and everything you do affects the community as a whole, is very inspiring and could be very helpful in our “me first” culture of the U.S. The way Latin American families take care of their sick and elderly, even living peacefully with multiple generations in a house, this too is inspiring. Attitudes toward future, conservation, sharing, economy, health, etc. So many things which may push us outside our boxes and comfort zones but, at the same time, may open our eyes to a bigger world than we’d imagined. These have great benefit for speculative fiction readers and for fellow writers. Opening my eyes to new cultural viewpoints has both changed me and solidified my own views. I don’t shy away from it because it’s different. I seek to understand the reasoning behind it and the motives, knowing that, while I may disagree or not entirely agree, they are also human beings of equal value and as a writer, being able to see things from different POV is invaluable to my success.

    The global reality is so much bigger than what we typically see. It’s good to be forced outside that sometimes and willingly step outside as well, take the blinders off or have them washed away and be refreshed in our own view.

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  • May 1, 2012 at 7:14 pm
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    To clarify this discussion, the original prompt was: “Fabio Fernandes is in the middle of a fundraising effort to support a special International issue of the magazine Future Fire” followed by the question. There was no mention of colonialism or first-world perspectives. I think having those contexts supplied would have resulted in a different discussion.

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  • May 1, 2012 at 7:34 pm
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    I found this round-table frustrating on several aspects. It’s sad that because there was no “explicit” mention of colonialism or first-world perspectives it would not be considered crucial to the discussion.

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  • May 1, 2012 at 7:41 pm
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    I think the fact that Fabio is doing an anthology of non-Western perspectives on Colonialism is becoming too central. It’s obvious that was added to frame the discussion by an editor. It appears, per Siobhan’s comment, it was not sent to the commentators for framing their discussion, so they cannot be expected to read minds and discuss this topic in that framework. The fact that Colonialism is important is not being denied or negated. And it can be discussed now in these comments if people so desire.

    Reply
  • May 1, 2012 at 8:34 pm
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    I’d like to apologize for the shifting frame between the original discussion and what you see on the website. I added the summary pitch for Fabio’s Peerbacker effort after the fact, and the Roundtable group didn’t see it originally. I can imagine a significantly different discussion that may have occurred had that been part of the original topic, and with luck we’ll have that discussion in the future.

    It’s clear that people care deeply about this topic, and I hope that concern will translate to a higher profile for The Future Fire’s fundraising efforts. As of now only two people have clicked through on the Peerbacker link, and I *really* hope that number goes up.

    Reply
  • May 1, 2012 at 11:21 pm
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    @Siobhan: how can you read the question “How can the imaginations of writers from outside the Western narrative contribute new perspectives to SF?” without seeing that it’s about colonialism and first-world perspectives?

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  • May 2, 2012 at 1:36 am
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    @Regina – I assumed this was a discussion about translation, and I therefore read “outside the Western narrative” as “unaffected by the historical narrative created by colonialism.” In other words, I thought the question was explicitly taking postcolonial writers *off* the table. That’s why, in my initial response, I asked whether “the ‘Western narrative’ encompass former European colonies.” That’s also why I ended my initial response with the suggestion that we think about living non-Anglophone writers and segued into a list of postcolonial works we could discuss. In short, I wanted to analyze postcolonial SF but I thought (as, apparently, did many of the other respondents) that the context of this dicsussion was “international” SF, broadly defined.

    I’ll add that I found the “how *can* the imaginations… contribute new perspectives to SF” formulation a bit off-putting — as though SF writers from different countries weren’t already making contributions to SF by writing fiction. I jumped in feet-first in part because I didn’t want a rambling discussion of “well, maybe other people *can* contribute if they do x y or z.” I wanted to talk about the contributions contemporary authors had actually made and were currently making.

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  • May 4, 2012 at 8:08 pm
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    I. A. Richards, would thou wert living at this hour!

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  • February 3, 2013 at 6:58 pm
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    I don’t know whether it’s just me or if everyone else experiencing problems with your blog.
    It looks like some of the written text on your content are running off the screen.
    Can somebody else please comment and let me know
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  • November 2, 2013 at 5:43 pm
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    Would anybody here be able to advise me on some non-western science fiction Zines? Its for a library that I am putting together.
    Thank you.

    Reply

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